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Silverfish
Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 11:02 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 22 Nov 2007 Posts: 57 Location: Sweden
I played this game like a week ago or something and I met a developer there, Daniel C. He told me to make a map so I did Smile:
Screenshots

I also made another one but I just made it to see how it would look if you did like that, here is the result of my art map:
Screenshot

I decided to make a zip that contains the two maps because they are so small, just unpack it in your Celestial Impact directory and they will show up in the map list when you create a game.
Download

On the Canyons map I made it so that you have to be inside your base in order to get points when playing crystal rounds. I also tried to make you spawn at the base but I never succeeded, isn't it working? made the two values for the spawn box the same so I thought you would only be able to spawn at that place but it's not working, is there a better way?

I would love to hear any feedback!
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Dracus
Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 9:40 am Reply with quote
Site Admin Joined: 03 Apr 2007 Posts: 54 Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Cool!
I really like Canyons. A little more open map then the others, can be a really great teamplay map with base protecting.
The art map was... interesting... Smile

About the spawnbox for players, it might not be implemented right now, I don't know... Creamola will give you a correct answer!

Also I put the map on our site if anyone like me find filecloud annoying.
Canyons+Silverfish02

Will play the map some more and then give you some feedback for potential improvments.

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Daniel Carlsson
Concept and 3D artist
Celestial Impact
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creamola
Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 10:07 pm Reply with quote
Developer Joined: 04 Apr 2007 Posts: 136 Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Oh, nice to see someone make an attempt at map creation Smile

The crystal capture area is defined by a sphere with center at the specified coordinates.

The spawn box is defined by a box specified by the coords for the bottom left corner of the box and the coords for the top right corner of the box, if I remember it right. So try and visualize drawing a diagonal between the mincoords and the maxcoords and you should be able to position the box where you want it.

Downloading the map now, I'll return with some feedback soon Smile

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Daniel Wikell
Game Design, 2D art and the rest of the stuff that noone else does
Celestial Impact
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Silverfish
Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 8:37 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 22 Nov 2007 Posts: 57 Location: Sweden
Thanks guys!

The capture area is working already.

But the spawn areas, well it's hard to know the orientation you know, xyz. Is there any way to find out?

Also, as I wrote, right now I have the spawn area coords being the same, wouldn't you always spawn at them then? Because now you spawn like totally random.

When at first I tried to make my spawn areas I did like this: I ran around the place I wanted to be able to spawn and watched the coords, I used the highest and lowest value I got and put the highest ones in max and the lowest in min, maybe this doesn't work? Well it didn't for me.
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creamola
Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 10:13 pm Reply with quote
Developer Joined: 04 Apr 2007 Posts: 136 Location: Stockholm, Sweden
I haven't tried changing the spawn box in a long time so maybe that function is not working properly in this version.

I'll look into it tomorrow.

And some feedback on your maps:

As Dracus already commented canyons is alot more open compared to any of my official maps. I've deliberately avoided creating too open spaces for two reasons:

* I wanted to force players to find or create higher ground if they wanted to get a good advantage with the railgun at the same time making them become more exposed themselves since they are more easily seen.

* I wanted to have the players learn to use the dirtgun by having lots of walls and tight spaces so that they would learn the advantage of breaking or climbing them.

However, these two reasons were both aimed at introducing new players to the game by providing a pretty well defined map, so I'm not saying open spaces are bad. On the contrary, the kind of open asteroid you made has very good potential for team based play where the creativity of the team is really important. This forces players to build their own barriers where needed and might make the team more focused on building a solid defense around their base and creating their own rail-sniping-platforms.

When the maps have spherical gravity it is really easy to become lost since you can reach places from practically any direction. Even if you played a map alot of times, you still have problems orienting yourself, not to mention that people might have changed the looks of a place by the next time you pass it. Building unique landmarks and painting rows is a good way to overcome this problem.

I see that you already defined the blue and red base with big distinguishable structures in their own colours. It's a good approach. The rest of the map seems to be looking alot alike in places since only marble and tridmood have been used. This will for sure make people become lost alot, but maybe that was your intention with the map. To have it feel like a dried out canyon with nothing but sand and rocks in all directions wherever you seem to go. By the way, I really like the colour you chose for the fog. It goes really well with the rest of the map Smile

One thing you should work on is balancing the bases abit more. Even if the intention of this map is to have people be creative with their defenses, the starting looks of the bases should give pretty much equal advantages and disadvantages. Try make the amount of paths to enter the two bases the same and the visibility of the bases from afar to be about equal.


As for the art map, well if you're not annoyed by falling down all the time this might be used as an interesting form of duelling map Smile

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Daniel Wikell
Game Design, 2D art and the rest of the stuff that noone else does
Celestial Impact
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Silverfish
Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 10:41 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 22 Nov 2007 Posts: 57 Location: Sweden
Thank you for the feedback!

I'll think about what you said when I continue on the map!

I don't really know how I would make landmarks or whatever is needed to help finding in the map. Maybe some kind of pillars? I mean the map IS called canyons and I just thought the two textures looked canyon like so I picked them, I might color the ground differently, maybe the slime texture on some place that may make it look like grass...

I suppose it's possible to change all the textures in a map via the .world file where you find the numbers and names for the textures?
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creamola
Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 11:28 pm Reply with quote
Developer Joined: 04 Apr 2007 Posts: 136 Location: Stockholm, Sweden
The numbers of the textures are only an id number that lets the map know which texture belongs to which place. Switching a texture path with another in the world script will switch the places those two textures appear in the map with eachother.

Yeah, by landmarks I mean things like small pillars, or small odd shaped structures or any things that helps giving the player a rough idea about which side of the asteroid he is on, but without destroying the layout of the map. The arc and the bridge between the two bases are two major landmarks you already have but when in the open space you have a hard time to tell which way the bases are. But as I said, this might have been the intention of the map and if it was, I think you should keep it the way it is now Smile

I agree that the two textures you mainly used really makes it look like a canyon so I don't think you should change too much of them either. Just a little fine touch-up on some parts is all thats needed

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Daniel Wikell
Game Design, 2D art and the rest of the stuff that noone else does
Celestial Impact
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Silverfish
Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 10:51 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 22 Nov 2007 Posts: 57 Location: Sweden
I suppose you're right that it's hard to find your way on the map, I mean I sometimes don't know which way to go to get to the blue base for example. How about some kind of small signs? Like with a red texture pointing towards the red base and a blue one towards the blue?
I will try different approaches when I feel like continuing with the map.

I absolutely have no intention of making players get lost Smile .

Yeah that was what I mean with the texture replacement, example:

1. red tex
2. blue tex

I switch the texture names places:

1. blue tex
2.red tex

This would result in that the stuff that was red on my map would turn blue and blue stuff would turn red, am I right?

Thanks
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creamola
Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 5:39 pm Reply with quote
Developer Joined: 04 Apr 2007 Posts: 136 Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Yes that is exactly what would happen.

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Daniel Wikell
Game Design, 2D art and the rest of the stuff that noone else does
Celestial Impact
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Dracus
Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 9:37 pm Reply with quote
Site Admin Joined: 03 Apr 2007 Posts: 54 Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Played canyons some more and I do like the feel of it. creamola gave alot of good comments about it that I do agree with. But I do also think that having an open map with few landmarks will give players that have an excellent spatial awareness an edge over others. This can be good for some maps for competition. Maybe not this one be we should have some more open maps I think.

Then remember that after a few minutes the map can be totally different so landmarks need to be big (or in a harder material) if you want them to stay during the round.

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Daniel Carlsson
Concept and 3D artist
Celestial Impact
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Taza
Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 1:26 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 26 May 2008 Posts: 17 Location: South Australia, Australia
you need to put the:

captureBluePos -13.74 -2.93 5.09
captureBlueRadius 7
captureRedPos 5.73 -0.56 -12.86
captureRedRadius 7

spawnBlueMins -13.74 -2.93 5.09
spawnBlueMaxs -13.74 -2.93 5.09

spawnRedMins 5.73 -0.56 -12.86
spawnRedMaxs 5.73 -0.56 -12.86

in the world tag area. I'm not sure if it's supposed to be done like this but it works a lot better.

Try replacing the Canyons.world script with this modified version:


//
//START
//

/*********************
* Made by Silverfish *
**********************/

name "Canyons"
loadingMiniImage maps/Canyons/Canyons_mini.tga
loadingImage maps/Canyons/Canyons.tga
matter maps/Canyons/Canyons.vo2
skyBox game/sky_orange/sky.material
description "Large map with two bases and a number of canyons.


4-10 players








Made by


Silverfish"

maxItems 18
itemSpawnTime 100

numMushrooms 7
numStones 15
numProbes 2
numBarrels 6

coreAltitude 5
spaceAltitude 22

skyAnglesSpeed 0 1 0.5

musicPath game/c_music/ingame.ogg
musicVolume 1

rules CR

//
// Weapons
//
meelgun
{
spawnWeapon
}
minigun
{
spawnWeapon
}

shotgun
{

}

grengun
{

}

railgun
{

}

dirtgun
{
spawnWeapon
tickRate 1500
tickMax 20
}

blueTeamWM 10
redTeamWM 2

//
// World Materials
//
worldMaterials
{
0 game/wm/tridmood.material
1 game/wm/chill.material
2 game/wm/purple.material
4 game/wm/brownmud.material
5 game/wm/marb.material
6 game/wm/red.material
7 game/wm/blue.material
8 game/wm/brim.material
9 game/wm/green.material
10 game/wm/slime.material
11 game/wm/mossy.material

}


fogColor 0.6 0.4 0.2
fogRadius 20
fogSight 24
fogLod game/c_models/sphere/0003.lo3

//
// World Tags
//
worldTags
{
spawn_crystal0 -1.84 -9.89 -7.04
spawn_crystal1 -5.16 12.47 -9.32
spawn_crystal2 3.17 13.25 5.47
spawn_blue_crystal -13.8 -2.6 3.7
spawn_red_crystal 5.73 -0.56 -12.86
meteor_rain_dir 0.2 0.5 1
spawn_blue_drone -13.8 -2.6 3.7
spawn_red_drone 5.73 -0.56 -12.86
crZoneBluePos -13.8 -2.6 3.7
crZoneBlueRadius 7
crZoneRedPos 5.73 -0.56 -12.86
crZoneRedRadius 7
spawnBlueMins -22.74 -9.93 -2.09
spawnBlueMaxs -8.74 -5.93 12.09
spawnRedMins -2.73 -7.56 -19.86
spawnRedMaxs 12.73 7.56 -5.86
}

//
END
//


it also adds crystals to the bases in the "capture the crystal" game mode - at the bottom of the bases in the central area - as well as making the players spawn within 7 (units) of their base. and the drones were moved to be directly over the crystals. It also should make the mini image work. And the dirtgun regenerate, and the capture areas work in the newest version.

I tried the "capture the crystal" game mode with the crystals at the top and it was to hard to get to the red crystal while you were under attack. So the crystals are at the bottom and not were the defualt position is which was to the side of each base - fairly close to the bases though, Good work, Love the map Smile
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Silverfish
Posted: Thu May 29, 2008 12:42 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 22 Nov 2007 Posts: 57 Location: Sweden
Very Happy

Wow thanks for the script file, and the praise! It's very appreciated! Very Happy

I don't have Internet at home ATM but I will soon, I'll make the change and upload it again as soon as I can. I might make some gameplay changes to the map as well, patch 1.1 marks the next version of CI for a long time for me and I hope that more people will start playing the game now, it would make mapping more meaningful, also much easier to test the maps and get feedback. Smile

You should expect the new release around the 14th of June since I'm in the middle of the last few weeks of school so I got much going on right now, also I need Internet.

Thanks again and have a nice!
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